Episode 11

Conversation with Martin Mouritzen of Podfriend

Published on: 5th June, 2023

Conversation with Martin Mouritzen of Podfriend. We talk about app development, the Podcasting 2.0 initiative, value for value, Live Item Tag, etc.

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Show notes with links to articles, blog posts, products and services:

Episode 11 (89 minutes) was live recorded at 7 PM Central European Time, on May 22, 2023, by podcaster, Martin Lindeskog, with Boomcaster. Martin did the editing, post-production, and transcript with the podcast maker, Alitu. Notes to self written on Mod 1927 notecards. Bumper and jingle by Jim Jonsson, JTunes Productions. 

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This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Martin Lindeskog:

Welcome to Tea Party media episode Eleven My name is Martin Lindeskoge.

Martin Lindeskog:

Hi Martin.

Martin Lindeskog:

Or numbness you say in Swedish.

Martin Mouritzen:

Hi Martin.

Martin Lindeskog:

Nice to be same name.

Martin Lindeskog:

The the warrior as you say.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's the original name of Martin nice.

Martin Mouritzen:

I didn't know that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it's how do you pronounce your last name?

Martin Lindeskog:

Morrison.

Martin Mouritzen:

In Danish I would say Mowitzen.

Martin Mouritzen:

And in English I'd say Morrison.

Martin Lindeskog:

Morrison.

Martin Lindeskog:

I had a friend in New York called Maurice

Martin Lindeskog:

Markowitz and that's similar name.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we are here today talking about your new

Martin Lindeskog:

version.

Martin Lindeskog:

We could say pod friend.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I also often start out with some in a way to icebreak but also to get the party going.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have my tea here from China, like black tea that have aroma with mineral tones and a bit

Martin Lindeskog:

not smokiness but it's a character.

Martin Lindeskog:

But still it's very good daily tea that you

Martin Lindeskog:

could use but I bought at a tea shop in Gottenburg.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I will ask you about what's your favorite beverage.

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it tea or is it some other beverage?

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's not tea.

Martin Mouritzen:

I don't really like tea.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, unfortunately not yet.

Martin Mouritzen:

Not yet.

Martin Mouritzen:

My wife drinks a lot of tea sometimes.

Martin Mouritzen:

Good period.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it comes in periods I actually drink.

Martin Mouritzen:

In Danish it's called soft event.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's like where you mix like.

Martin Lindeskog:

One part juice and then concentrated juice or soft.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then you add water like five times water

Martin Mouritzen:

or something and then I drink that a lot.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have filled up my water bottle for this

Martin Mouritzen:

session and then I also always drink coffee so that's like you.

Martin Lindeskog:

Could have like lingon berry or tran berries or whatever and then fill it

Martin Lindeskog:

up so that's good and coffee.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I would say that directly if you want to

Martin Lindeskog:

say your location.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I been to a very nice tea place in

Martin Lindeskog:

Copenhagen now, I don't remember the name but it was an old style tea shop but also a

Martin Lindeskog:

lounge, a tea lounge and it was central in Copenhagen and I really enjoyed that.

Martin Lindeskog:

It made my day when I was sitting there and I got a teapot and good quality I think I had

Martin Lindeskog:

from India Tea and enjoyed it tremendously.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's a nice that you have and you have

Martin Lindeskog:

talking about drinks.

Martin Lindeskog:

We will talk about that also party 1 bar

Martin Lindeskog:

called Hotel Central Bar or Hotel Central or something like that in Copenhagen that I got

Martin Lindeskog:

the tip from because they had a corporation in Gottenburg, they had this called in Latin the

Martin Lindeskog:

name is like spoon not coffee, but it's like a hotel boutique chain.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they had one connection there in Copenhagen and very close there.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I went through the bus, this flex box bus and very central, so I knew how to find my

Martin Lindeskog:

way.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I have seen a list there and they were one

Martin Lindeskog:

of the top list in the world, I think even the best bar.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it was like designed and interior like British style, English style with mahogany

Martin Lindeskog:

this furniture, the leather furniture and this bar that looked very cozy and nice and classy

Martin Lindeskog:

and there I had a very nice drink.

Martin Lindeskog:

Today is like I was talking about this because

Martin Lindeskog:

soon I will launch my so called lost site called Tea Party media and Tea is my favorite

Martin Lindeskog:

beverage.

Martin Lindeskog:

And Party is to having fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it could also be the historical thing what's happening Boston Tea Party in 73 and on

Martin Lindeskog:

December 16.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then also media is the domain where

Martin Lindeskog:

talking about new media.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's why I want to have this repetit and

Martin Lindeskog:

having repetition so you will remember it and it's also to think, focus what you are doing

Martin Lindeskog:

good life with tea, for example and to have fun, have party and also drink tea.

Martin Lindeskog:

And today it's what to say.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's the song that I will include in the show

Martin Lindeskog:

notes called Bitcoin Pizza Day because it's May 22 and on that day around ten years ago,

Martin Lindeskog:

right? Yeah, it was a guy who wanted to buy some

Martin Lindeskog:

pizza slices or big pizzas, a couple of them I think for was it 10,000 Satosh bitcoins?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, 10,000 bitcoins worth I think $41 or something.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, but nowadays it will be a.

Martin Mouritzen:

Bit more, a little bit more.

Martin Lindeskog:

So they celebrate that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And an artist called Sean Smith Solo, I have

Martin Lindeskog:

interviewed him and he created this song called this Bitcoin Pizza Day.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I will include that in show notes.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's very upbeat song and we talk about

Martin Lindeskog:

blockchain and bitcoin and how we should in a light way and I really like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's nice to celebrate that a few days before my birthday on May 25.

Martin Lindeskog:

So what's your party drink then, if you have a party?

Martin Mouritzen:

My party drink? Well, it used to be Mojito, but I think these

Martin Mouritzen:

days it's just a nice good beer, like a lager or something.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I enjoy craft beers.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, me too.

Martin Lindeskog:

When when you come to Gottenburg, I will tell

Martin Lindeskog:

you about a place called Free.

Martin Lindeskog:

Small rooms that have very good microbros and

Martin Lindeskog:

you are not allowed to we have that expression in Swedish, I don't know how you say it in

Martin Lindeskog:

English but you're not allowed to buy a so called big strong beer.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's an expression for the general beer.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's a strong alcohol halt often it's back

Martin Lindeskog:

in the day it was Prips and Prips is now belonging to Vidani.

Martin Lindeskog:

Isn't that Danish colespario I think they own.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, that sounds true.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you have this other Big heineken probably the best beer in the

Martin Lindeskog:

world is Vermonto and I'm all for it, but it's like 90% of all beers out there is this

Martin Lindeskog:

regular beer and all kind of other microbrewers with some special taste are very

Martin Lindeskog:

small, but it's increasing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's good to hear that you like that kind

Martin Lindeskog:

of thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

I like my favorite is Margherita.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's a bit sour and sweet it's like tequila and then quantro with liqueur, citrus liquor

Martin Lindeskog:

and then lime juice.

Martin Mouritzen:

So you need Tequila media as well.

Martin Lindeskog:

What is it?

Martin Mouritzen:

You need? Tequila Party media as well.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that too.

Martin Lindeskog:

That could be harsh.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then the third thing in this domain name, tea Party media.

Martin Lindeskog:

What's your favorite social media? Or where do you hang out?

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, that's a great question.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's actually mastodon.

Martin Mouritzen:

I hang out on podcast, index, social.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I also have a Twitter account, but

Martin Mouritzen:

sometimes I forget to check it.

Martin Mouritzen:

I also have Facebook that I use just for

Martin Mouritzen:

private stuff, but I can just see like ten years ago I would check Facebook every hour.

Martin Mouritzen:

Now I will check Facebook.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like if I get a notification that my wife

Martin Mouritzen:

wrote me, I hardly check it anymore.

Martin Mouritzen:

Continue.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I use instagram for reels.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have a coworker and my wife, we send reels

Martin Mouritzen:

to each other and yeah, I think that's it.

Martin Mouritzen:

But where I get most of my daily entertainment

Martin Mouritzen:

is actually podcast index or social.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then actually I also use Reddit, but

Martin Mouritzen:

that's more for like if I need something specific, like some information, then I'll go

Martin Mouritzen:

into a subreddit on that topic and then that was good that.

Martin Lindeskog:

You mentioned Facebook because now I will try to change the settings.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's in private, but where's the meter? So I will see if I could manage to do that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Otherwise it has to be where do I do that then?

Martin Lindeskog:

I don't know why it's doing?

Martin Mouritzen:

Good question.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm not sure I can help you.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think this is my first live show ever.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, actually I was once on the Podcasting 2.0

Martin Mouritzen:

show, but that was when it was not live.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that was an hour or so delayed.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it should be somewhere that you could put the settings.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's typical now when you try to do multitasking at the same time, thera where is

Martin Lindeskog:

it? Are the ceilings?

Martin Lindeskog:

This is very good.

Martin Lindeskog:

Podcasting.

Martin Mouritzen:

Running very much with scissors.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yes. So private sets, secretes private.

Martin Lindeskog:

How do I change that? I can't change it.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, you're missing out in Facebook.

Martin Lindeskog:

I managed to do it last time, but this is funny.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we are running live on Facebook, but nobody else by myself will see it but on YouTube and

Martin Lindeskog:

on what more YouTube and LinkedIn.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's more like a test and we'll come more

Martin Lindeskog:

about live also in the near future.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's interesting that you said mastodon

Martin Lindeskog:

because I'm now getting it, but I must say, at the first time I saw it, I was thinking and

Martin Lindeskog:

that's leading into how you create an app.

Martin Lindeskog:

For example, for me it was like Master on.

Martin Lindeskog:

It looks very 1990s or something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

I didn't get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was this dark background.

Martin Lindeskog:

The good thing is it's no algorithm, it's no

Martin Lindeskog:

stressing things.

Martin Lindeskog:

But on the other hand, it was like, what's

Martin Lindeskog:

this? I don't get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it took me a long time, but it was good that I did it because I didn't rush into it.

Martin Mouritzen:

But did you know that you can download?

Martin Mouritzen:

There's a lot of different clients from Amazon, some good, some not so good.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's why I'm waiting for the good reviews and so on, because I

Martin Lindeskog:

don't want to rush into it.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have so many apps otherwise, especially

Martin Lindeskog:

Podcasting 2.0 apps that I want to test, but I hear that it will come.

Martin Lindeskog:

Apps that are more similar to my Twitter or whatever that you're used to.

Martin Lindeskog:

But in a way I like to log in.

Martin Lindeskog:

And at one time I had to log in almost every

Martin Lindeskog:

day.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then if you have like hundred or whatnot,

Martin Lindeskog:

it could be a bit to scroll, right? Yeah, but if it's really so called, not

Martin Lindeskog:

important, but if somebody tagging you whatever, you will see it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, you don't have to be stressed, but it will take some time to search for things and

Martin Lindeskog:

so on, but it will come to you.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I have a very, in a way, interesting mix

Martin Lindeskog:

of uses that I'm following.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's all over the place and all the spectra,

Martin Lindeskog:

political wise and whatnot sometimes I'm always like, okay, I don't like this.

Martin Lindeskog:

Should I block it or should I remove it or should unfollow or should I let it be?

Martin Lindeskog:

I had somebody that comment on me that I was sharing something and then were coming on this

Martin Lindeskog:

Tea Party media and thought it was with modern Tea Party movement, like the political.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I didn't respond because it was so out of blue.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I said, okay, you could have that opinion, but if you don't really care to investigate a

Martin Lindeskog:

bit more, I don't have to respond to it either.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's a good thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

And you can't do even if I like it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you can't retweet so called you can't repost quotation, like out of context thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

You can't do that.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, I mean, you can boost things and covers the favorite.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I think Mastermind will also continue to evolve now that we also see Nostar, they're

Martin Mouritzen:

probably going to steal a few ideas from each other.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I don't get noster.

Martin Lindeskog:

So do you want to say something.

Martin Mouritzen:

About no, so I don't use Nostar.

Martin Mouritzen:

I've tried and I think I get how it works on a shallow level.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I did find like Adam Curry and stuff, and I tried to follow, but it didn't really work

Martin Mouritzen:

for me.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, I can't say much about Nostar.

Martin Mouritzen:

I saw some of the work that Dave from Podcasting 2.0 have been doing with the chat

Martin Mouritzen:

where he's using and I like that.

Martin Mouritzen:

I like that and I like the concept.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think as soon as we get for us developers, like some sort of class that we

Martin Mouritzen:

can just use like a framework so that we can implement it without knowing much about the

Martin Mouritzen:

technology, then I think maybe we can actually use it for live chats and things like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, and that's a good thing that you mention that because maybe that

Martin Lindeskog:

will come in.

Martin Lindeskog:

We jump into that directly because you were

Martin Lindeskog:

one of the early I've written that as a note here.

Martin Lindeskog:

Early adopter nowadays is it about 70 different application and services and not web

Martin Lindeskog:

hosts, but podcast hosts.

Martin Lindeskog:

And whatnot on these new podcast apps or new

Martin Lindeskog:

podcastapps.com also that directs to podcast index and the tab on apps or applications.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then if you then click, for example, if your operating system or whatnot, you could

Martin Lindeskog:

also click on apps or applications, then it may be plus 30 or something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you were one with Pod Friend, you were one of the first, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I don't know if it was their first, but it was definitely one of the

Martin Mouritzen:

very first.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I remember writing to Adam even before

Martin Mouritzen:

the Podcasting 2.0 podcast was live, because at that point I was creating Pod Friend and I

Martin Mouritzen:

was scraping the itunes API, which is very gray zone, legal or not legal.

Martin Mouritzen:

And certainly they had the option of turning that off anytime they wanted.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I can't remember if I found it through like a search or someone told me, but

Martin Mouritzen:

someone basically said, reach out to Adam Curry, he's building something you'll find

Martin Mouritzen:

interesting.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I wrote him an email and he then CC Dave

Martin Mouritzen:

and say, hey, can we give this guy access? And I was like, yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I got access to the API pretty fast.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I think after the first episode,

Martin Mouritzen:

between the first and the second episode, I made an open source implementation that I put

Martin Mouritzen:

on GitHub that used the Podcast Index API that people could take and learn from and build

Martin Mouritzen:

their own applications.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so I made that and I think that it was a

Martin Mouritzen:

really good thing because it meant that other people could see, like, oh, this is how we

Martin Mouritzen:

used API, and you can actually build something real on top of the index.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that was even before any new tax or the value for value and streaming bitcoins.

Martin Mouritzen:

The way I learned about it was basically through the index.

Martin Mouritzen:

And for me, it was a game changer because I could get much more reliable podcast

Martin Mouritzen:

information for the podcast app.

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it like when I talked to Mitch of podverse, he said that he started

Martin Lindeskog:

creating his app because he wanted to do clips.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then it evolved.

Martin Lindeskog:

Why did you start programming this app?

Martin Lindeskog:

Was it for your own sake or was it that you saw that with all apps out there?

Martin Lindeskog:

I see that, especially like web browser, web browsed, but I see an opportunity here or why

Martin Lindeskog:

did you do it?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, historically my background is in programming and in my day to

Martin Mouritzen:

day work, I work as a product manager where I spend a lot of my time looking at product

Martin Mouritzen:

opportunities and stuff like that.

Martin Mouritzen:

And this time I would say I didn't really look

Martin Mouritzen:

at the product opportunity that much except just knowing that it was there.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it was for my own sake.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was actually because I listened to a lot of

Martin Mouritzen:

true crime podcasts and I had this idea.

Martin Mouritzen:

First of all, hey, whenever they mention a

Martin Mouritzen:

photo or something and then they say you can go to our website and you can see the photo, I

Martin Mouritzen:

was thinking, why doesn't it pop up in my podcast player?

Martin Mouritzen:

That was even before the name chapter space.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

Back then I just thought, oh, the only option to do it is proprietary, like doing it in my

Martin Mouritzen:

own app.

Martin Mouritzen:

But now the option of Chapters is there.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then it was also because I used Spotify for podcasting mostly, and I also use Spotify

Martin Mouritzen:

for music.

Martin Mouritzen:

And for me it's two very different things.

Martin Mouritzen:

I use music, for example, while coding and I listen to podcasts while walking the dog or

Martin Mouritzen:

sitting in a bus, or even also sometimes at the computer, but not when coding because I

Martin Mouritzen:

can't listen to someone talk and code at the same time.

Martin Mouritzen:

But Spotify, I treated this as like one thing.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I kept being annoyed that I'm sitting

Martin Mouritzen:

coding and I press the play button and a podcast comes like, oh, now I have to find my

Martin Mouritzen:

music again.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I thought, let me make something that

Martin Mouritzen:

works better.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, and there you have this elephant in the room.

Martin Lindeskog:

So Spotify, I am a so called Apple fanboy, but I'm very critical to Apple in a way, in a

Martin Lindeskog:

constructive way.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as Adam said, itunes, that is now Podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

Index or Podcaster app, that's standard app on your iPhone, have been treating it in a pretty

Martin Lindeskog:

good way, but they haven't developed it at all.

Martin Lindeskog:

But Apple podcast or Apple Music, I know at least that the art is getting more paid than

Martin Lindeskog:

other places.

Martin Lindeskog:

But when it comes to podcast, when Spotify was

Martin Lindeskog:

doing that one thing and this now have become a debate, how should you listen to a podcast?

Martin Lindeskog:

But I'm talking pretty slow.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think I could be exciting and talk quicker.

Martin Lindeskog:

And if people want to speed up and if it's a long interview, I think it's totally okay to

Martin Lindeskog:

have a different speed.

Martin Lindeskog:

If it doesn't sound strange and like Uber cost

Martin Lindeskog:

you could do that with and other applications.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then now on mustard on that been a

Martin Lindeskog:

discussion about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

If you speed up too much, you get stressed.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they have a point there also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But on Spotify, because music, you should only

Martin Lindeskog:

play it in one way, right? If it was not vinyl, then you could play it

Martin Lindeskog:

around and have secret messages or whatever with the Beatles or whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

They were saying that they're doing special things anyway, so they didn't have that

Martin Lindeskog:

feature to play on another speed because it was based on a music application, not a

Martin Lindeskog:

podcast application.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now we're trying to even have in the

Martin Lindeskog:

future maybe like audiobooks or ebooks and whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they really try as I have this expression and I'm for the free market, but they really

Martin Lindeskog:

try to corner the market to get everything.

Martin Lindeskog:

And the listener, as Todd Cochrane of

Martin Lindeskog:

Blueberry saying, the listener doesn't really care and especially the younger generation.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right.

Martin Lindeskog:

So here's a challenge.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's what I like now and I've seen lots of new podcast apps, but you could pick and

Martin Lindeskog:

choose and then of course, you could go back to if you favor some of the old ones.

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean, Apple podcaster app at the beginning that was not the best app, but they have

Martin Lindeskog:

improved, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

But now I want really to focus on the new podcast app.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's again interesting how you come up with this idea.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I could say that to maybe find my niche because as a new media advisor, I have to

Martin Lindeskog:

learn with different categories.

Martin Lindeskog:

And one of my things saying it's so called 4

Martin Lindeskog:

million podcasts out there, maybe 500,000 are active.

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it 30 different categories? You have categories on your site?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, there's a lot of categories.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm only showing a few of them.

Martin Lindeskog:

So if you start dividing, it's not so much to compete with even if it's

Martin Lindeskog:

thousands of them compared to YouTube, whatever.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's interesting.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's still open and still maybe in Denmark and

Martin Lindeskog:

Sweden often it's on the top list of consumption for one reason is like the

Martin Lindeskog:

Internet and the speed of phones and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And also that this streaming thing that you

Martin Lindeskog:

could do, it pretty cheaply compared to others when they have their seller plans and so on

Martin Lindeskog:

and it could really be expensive and we don't really think about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then of course, maybe Spotify and others have been because it's one of the most used.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that could be one reason also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I know, for example, that True Crimes and

Martin Lindeskog:

this kind of category is very big and one of one is it Podme.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think you're thinking about a company yeah, in Sweden.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's now owned by Boniers with big Publication, but they started with

Martin Lindeskog:

True Crimes and also that you pay for it like almost like an audiobook service, like

Martin Lindeskog:

Audible.

Martin Lindeskog:

Podimo you're talking yeah, that's another

Martin Lindeskog:

one, but that's one in Denmark.

Martin Lindeskog:

But Podme is in Swedish one.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I often have it as a case that you could really do this profitable and also charge

Martin Lindeskog:

money for it.

Martin Lindeskog:

If you find your niche of listeners and they

Martin Lindeskog:

think like a podcast and it is a value, but they think it's almost like an audiobook and

Martin Lindeskog:

say, oh, maybe it's 100 Swedish crowns or 100 Danish crowns per month, it's okay if I like

Martin Lindeskog:

all this true crown.

Martin Lindeskog:

And when they got popular, they have lots of

Martin Lindeskog:

of course they have investors and so on also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But lots of paying members and then they could

Martin Lindeskog:

buy new shows and hire in order to have this content creation, like really slick production

Martin Lindeskog:

and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I see that market.

Martin Lindeskog:

But for me, as a so called sensitive soft guy, I don't like to listen to murder and things

Martin Lindeskog:

and all these terrible things.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course I like Sherlock Holmes, I like

Martin Lindeskog:

Hitchcock, he was a master.

Martin Lindeskog:

But personally but I have to learn about it

Martin Lindeskog:

because it's a really big category.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I would say maybe when I say I like True crime, maybe what I really

Martin Mouritzen:

like is actually investigative podcast, like documentaries.

Martin Lindeskog:

So they want to solve a problem.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think a lot of the.

Martin Lindeskog:

Like this that I thought was so called, we call it Cornflex or Fling or in

Martin Lindeskog:

Swedish cereal.

Martin Lindeskog:

First I thought it was cereal, but not

Martin Lindeskog:

serious.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that was we could joke about that now

Martin Lindeskog:

again.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then it was when podcasting was booming

Martin Lindeskog:

because the mainstream media was writing about this successful podcast series that was very

Martin Lindeskog:

well produced and lots of new listeners because still maybe 50% don't know about

Martin Lindeskog:

podcasting yet.

Martin Lindeskog:

Even if it's hard to think about, it's still a

Martin Lindeskog:

market out there.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, definitely.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, sometimes we know about it and we are

Martin Mouritzen:

a bit in a bubble, right? Yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's interesting when I talk to my mom and her husband, they really love audio dramas and

Martin Mouritzen:

audio books, but they don't know podcasting.

Martin Mouritzen:

They've never tried it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I keep telling them, just listen to this one thing and then they're like, maybe, and

Martin Mouritzen:

then they never there.

Martin Lindeskog:

You have one that I want to interview on our podcast, probably the secular

Martin Lindeskog:

Foxhole, because I know he's outspoken about faith and that he's an atheist.

Martin Lindeskog:

Evotera, that is one of an old time podcasters.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now he's very focused into the audio drama and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

So he created his own website, is now focused on that segment.

Martin Lindeskog:

But he has been very prolific talking about Podcasting 2.0 and other things.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's fascinating.

Martin Mouritzen:

Speaking of Master, actually, I followed that guy.

Martin Mouritzen:

I don't really know who he is, but he kept sharing like irrelevant things and then it's

Martin Mouritzen:

just unfollow because it pollutes the timeline.

Martin Lindeskog:

We will wave to Everterra.

Martin Lindeskog:

We could have a debate about that.

Martin Mouritzen:

Maybe I'll follow him again at some point.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think you should.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's what I said, that I have this broad

Martin Lindeskog:

spectrum.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have people who thinks that I'm not

Martin Lindeskog:

interested in a way, but it moves on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then he could write about like

Martin Lindeskog:

microbrewery and I like it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as a fun thing, he said something about

Martin Lindeskog:

beef jerky and I liked that and said, have you tested this?

Martin Lindeskog:

And he said, could you send it to me? So I did it and then he posted it and it was

Martin Lindeskog:

very happy.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I liked that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I understand what you're saying.

Martin Lindeskog:

I have some that are as I call it on the edge

Martin Lindeskog:

because sometimes I'm almost there clicking because now it's getting out of hand, but then

Martin Lindeskog:

I take a breather and then it's gone.

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, I certainly accept that people share whatever irrelevant things.

Martin Mouritzen:

When I say irrelevant, it's because I mostly use mastodon for podcasting subjects.

Martin Mouritzen:

But then when I follow someone that they may have posted something interesting about

Martin Mouritzen:

podcasting, but then when they ten days in a row post something about cooking recipes or

Martin Mouritzen:

something, then I'm like, okay, unfollow.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then later they will get another chance if

Martin Mouritzen:

they share something interesting and someone else in my timeline likes it or something.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I think that's a good thing that you could do it like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I joined his podcast index social because I wanted to focus on the podcasting thing and

Martin Lindeskog:

for me it was which should I pick and how could you join?

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean, still, it's it's an in a way challenge, but it's still early.

Martin Mouritzen:

Days in the user experience that's yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it will, it will come around and talking about that then the podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

more your podcast app.

Martin Lindeskog:

So pod friend, how friendly is your podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

app? I see it's a funny logo type and a bit quirky

Martin Lindeskog:

with the tongue and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

Could you tell a little bit about that mascot

Martin Lindeskog:

or what you call it?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean, the mascot was actually a friend of mine and she made it for

Martin Mouritzen:

me because I asked her, could you try creating something fun and quirky?

Martin Mouritzen:

And then she made that and we're like, okay, that's now pot friend.

Martin Mouritzen:

So yeah, that's how that came about.

Martin Mouritzen:

And yeah, how friendly is it?

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, right now I would say there's definitely work to do and it's an ongoing project.

Martin Mouritzen:

Right now I wanted the version two out there, but I definitely want to revisit every single

Martin Mouritzen:

page in the app and think about, okay, how could this be more user friendly?

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course, I have the challenge that I'm both on the web and on the desktop and on the

Martin Mouritzen:

mobile.

Martin Mouritzen:

So every time I make something, it has to work

Martin Mouritzen:

on all platforms.

Martin Mouritzen:

And it's both fun.

Martin Mouritzen:

But sometimes it's also a challenge because I will have this idea.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, you know what? While the episode is live, I can just show the

Martin Mouritzen:

chat over here on the side on the desktop, and it's like, oh, but how would that work on

Martin Mouritzen:

mobile? Then we need an icon you can press or

Martin Mouritzen:

something.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I was comment on that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now we're going back and forth.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I was thinking about the interrelate chat thing that you could use and then I clicked

Martin Lindeskog:

and I asked about you on the mastodon there and the chat, if you could move that chat

Martin Lindeskog:

because it's popping up and I could listen.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if I move around or something like that,

Martin Lindeskog:

maybe I would close it down by mistake.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I've used this other that Dave had done for

Martin Lindeskog:

fun because it was very old school.

Martin Lindeskog:

But what I'm clicking on here and they said

Martin Lindeskog:

something long, string and are you really sure that you want will you publish this on

Martin Lindeskog:

Nostril? I don't know, something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I was what I'm doing here, I'm doing it right or not.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I like because interrelate chat I know from back in the day.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so that's one area where there's definitely a lot of work to do,

Martin Mouritzen:

both in the concept that Davis made, I think I was to implement it in Podfriend, I would hide

Martin Mouritzen:

all of those advanced settings from you.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like maybe you would have an advanced tab

Martin Mouritzen:

somewhere where you could do some of those things so you could take your identity from

Martin Mouritzen:

somewhere else and move in.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if you don't know about it, it would just

Martin Mouritzen:

be a normal chat where you don't have to think about that.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then with the IRC Internet Relay Chat you're talking about where right now I pop it

Martin Mouritzen:

up in a window as you said.

Martin Mouritzen:

If you're on desktop, for example, it makes

Martin Mouritzen:

perfect sense if it opened up in like an external window so you could move it around.

Martin Mouritzen:

That's definitely one idea that I will steal from you now.

Martin Mouritzen:

You're welcome.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I must say that because I'm not a programmer.

Martin Lindeskog:

Back in the day I could so called program HTML, very basic websites back when you had to

Martin Lindeskog:

do it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now I don't have to, so I have forgotten about

Martin Lindeskog:

that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But as Adam is saying, give the developers

Martin Lindeskog:

time and of course you could push them in a friendly way and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I'm joke that's why I wanted to have you on the show because you were one of our

Martin Lindeskog:

adopters and then others have coming around and it's really a friendly competition.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it's easy, actually, because the new podcasting apps like podverse

Martin Mouritzen:

Pod Friend Curiocast or Pot Station, Fountain, all those apps, we are what, 0.1% of the

Martin Mouritzen:

market? And then you have the big players like Apple,

Martin Mouritzen:

Podcasts and Spotify that are, I don't know, 90% of the market.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then there are a few indie apps that do have some percentages, but it's like we're not

Martin Mouritzen:

competing with each other down here.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like the indie apps.

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, maybe like in in the podcast in 2.0 space but that's that's friendly competition.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if we want to make it big at one one day, then it's really the Apple Podcast and Spotify

Martin Mouritzen:

users that we are after.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think some people are happy being a very

Martin Mouritzen:

niche podcast like for Podfriend.

Martin Mouritzen:

I do work on the 2.0 abilities even though I

Martin Mouritzen:

know oh my God, only ten people will actually benefit from this or in the start.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then as it grows it'll be more and more and then I try to balance it with more user

Martin Mouritzen:

friendly things like I have a long list of features that I want to implement and.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then I hope to one day make it more user friendly than Apple podcast and then still

Martin Mouritzen:

have all those features in.

Martin Mouritzen:

But there's a long way to go and I have a day

Martin Mouritzen:

job so I work on it like evenings and in the weekend.

Martin Mouritzen:

And yeah, I think I have the advantage of just being one person with both product and

Martin Mouritzen:

developer and designer experience so I can move very fast.

Martin Mouritzen:

And yeah, I hope to keep that advantage and then I look very much forward to see where

Martin Mouritzen:

things will be one year or two years from now.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I will now show for live T shirt here and

Martin Lindeskog:

it's saying Pod Runner.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it's not in a way it is a podcast.

Martin Lindeskog:

He is listed on a podcast I think he is hosting on Libson and that's Pod Runner and

Martin Lindeskog:

Groove Electric and he's doing DDA and he's also an author writing science fiction novels.

Martin Lindeskog:

And he has this that you could support him on a monthly basis like Patreon and PayPal and

Martin Lindeskog:

others I think maybe not patron, I don't know, but PayPal and then also you could buy

Martin Lindeskog:

merchandise.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I want to introduce him to this value for

Martin Lindeskog:

value and what will happen in the future because he has to buy the rights for different

Martin Lindeskog:

songs or tunes in order to mix them right and doing different beats per minute and put it

Martin Lindeskog:

together.

Martin Lindeskog:

He has to have the rights in order to put this

Martin Lindeskog:

finished song or how do you call it, like a mix album on digital.

Martin Lindeskog:

So if he, for example, has one.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I know that when I asked Robin Greenley

Martin Lindeskog:

when he was on Libs and if he had been talking to this guy pod runner now, I forgot his name,

Martin Lindeskog:

but he has.

Martin Lindeskog:

His newsletters I really recommend to check it

Martin Lindeskog:

out Pod Runner because there's lots of work to do that mix and buy the rights and putting it

Martin Lindeskog:

together with the beats per minute and the style.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then you also have this exercise or like mixes on different beats per minute if you're

Martin Lindeskog:

running or if you're walking or whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if you could do like what Adam Now have

Martin Lindeskog:

done with this wavelake and also what is called now beats.

Martin Lindeskog:

Beats, yeah, now running up on the charge and so on because they are boosting it.

Martin Lindeskog:

This could be very interesting and what could come out of it.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I actually spent some of the time today before meeting refining.

Martin Mouritzen:

So the new technology behind it is the value split tag where you define like, hey, this

Martin Mouritzen:

part of my show, the value is streamed to this other podcast and then they have their own

Martin Mouritzen:

value block.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I made it work in Podfriend right now, I

Martin Mouritzen:

think with like gaffer tape and a bit of glue.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I hope to release that before the Friday

Martin Mouritzen:

show so that you can also use Podfriend to do that because I think Steven from Curacast.

Martin Mouritzen:

He's definitely been running with scissors there and I think having one more

Martin Mouritzen:

implementation will just lend more credibility to the sack.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

I'm very happy now I interrupt you, but I'm

Martin Lindeskog:

very happy to have used Curacaster also like a web.

Martin Lindeskog:

And he was so nice with Secular.

Martin Lindeskog:

Foxholes sent a small boostogram to him and

Martin Lindeskog:

then he put our show on the features or highlights.

Martin Lindeskog:

But again, with the design, I could say it's like black background and white text and I

Martin Lindeskog:

haven't got into it so much, but I like it, so I want to test different ones and then you

Martin Lindeskog:

could of course give positive feedback but also be patient.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now he's working on this music thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's very interesting how this plays

Martin Lindeskog:

around.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now on one of my screen, on my smartphone,

Martin Lindeskog:

I have I don't know how many of his new podcast apps there are and I test for

Martin Lindeskog:

different wings.

Martin Lindeskog:

Like for example, one I like very much when I

Martin Lindeskog:

wanted to have a clean interface and loading it because I have an old phone, I have an

Martin Lindeskog:

iPhone six S Plus because still you have a micro you could put the microphone in but not

Martin Lindeskog:

convert.

Martin Lindeskog:

The battery is getting there, but that run

Martin Lindeskog:

very smoothly with podcast Guru.

Martin Lindeskog:

But now he is also starting with Value for

Martin Lindeskog:

Value.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's interesting.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then of course, you could support different with do you have a premium feature

Martin Lindeskog:

also?

Martin Mouritzen:

I do, not right now, but as soon as my app gets approved to like Apple

Martin Mouritzen:

podcasts.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, because that's a challenge to yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I found out with the version one of Podfriend that it was really

Martin Mouritzen:

hard to get it on the App Store because and they gave the reason oh, this could have been

Martin Mouritzen:

a website.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm like well, today anything could be a

Martin Mouritzen:

website.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like I can recreate any app on.

Martin Lindeskog:

A website and that's how iPhone and Apple have done it themselves.

Martin Lindeskog:

They have open it up to that.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's a crazy reason, but I'm guessing that they are just it's almost like

Martin Mouritzen:

per default that they're denying new apps.

Martin Mouritzen:

Let them try a few times just to see if they

Martin Mouritzen:

really mean it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, yeah, it's interesting.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I will then try to get you to the split on this show also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But that also had been a challenge that I first did this Satushi stream and had done

Martin Lindeskog:

this checkmark and then I think it was James and then it was Dave and some others that

Martin Lindeskog:

helped me in order to get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then I saw Fountain coming along and I

Martin Lindeskog:

really could see, wow, this is so then I moved.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I like Fountain.

Martin Lindeskog:

But also I've seen how they have had some, you

Martin Lindeskog:

could say growing pain, especially on my old phone.

Martin Lindeskog:

I could see how it was very but I had lots of podcasts on it and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's interesting again how it plays around and they have picked their way this friendly

Martin Lindeskog:

competition again.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you have others that adding this LB

Martin Lindeskog:

and wallet.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I think everyone will be able to compete in

Martin Lindeskog:

a friend with each other.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then like this gamification the lists.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now you could continue because I interrupt you, but with Pod friend being as earlier

Martin Lindeskog:

adopter.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then now you do this new big version.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as you said, it is web based, but it should be synchronized so you could use it

Martin Lindeskog:

also on a smartphone or others.

Martin Lindeskog:

But are you planning to have a dedicated

Martin Lindeskog:

application also that you will download or what's your thinking.

Martin Mouritzen:

With the version one, I already had iOS and Android app.

Martin Mouritzen:

The iOS app was on test flight because they kept not approving it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I also had a desktop native application both for Mac and Windows.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I'm definitely going to do the very same thing.

Martin Mouritzen:

I already have the desktop app working and I think it will be one week, maybe two weeks

Martin Mouritzen:

until I have the iOS test flight apps out.

Martin Mouritzen:

For now, it's just making sure that everything

Martin Mouritzen:

works on Web because then I only have one platform to think of right now.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because for example, one of the new things is that you can connect with Albie and for most

Martin Mouritzen:

people it seems to work and then there's a few that says like, oh, I couldn't get it to

Martin Mouritzen:

connect.

Martin Mouritzen:

And even the guys from Albie said like, I

Martin Mouritzen:

tried three accounts and one it worked and two, it didn't.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as I said, again, it's these technical things.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I could say that I have been there also and I have to remember the password or forget

Martin Lindeskog:

the password.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now I try to get it into because I've had

Martin Lindeskog:

that also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But that's probably settings that I could

Martin Lindeskog:

change on podverse when I send a boostogram.

Martin Lindeskog:

Albie is asking me like ten times for the

Martin Lindeskog:

different splits.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

Do you agree? Do you agree, do you agree?

Martin Lindeskog:

Do you agree? And A bling bling Bling, it's a safety thing

Martin Lindeskog:

and I could probably check mark something, but also to log in.

Martin Lindeskog:

Sometimes it's getting in this strange loop and you're out and in.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I agree because in a way it's a safety thing because an LB wallet is real money.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course I don't have on it, but it's very lots of security things and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it should work.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right when I was topping up with fiat

Martin Lindeskog:

currency, the first time I used Blue wallet and the second time I tried to do it, it

Martin Lindeskog:

didn't work.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I sent an email, I sent a Twitter, no

Martin Lindeskog:

response.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then it was something about how to say

Martin Lindeskog:

sundown or they were closing down something, but I don't know exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, so now with Moon, pay is working.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, it's lots of things in place in order to

Martin Lindeskog:

get it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And as Adam is saying, the regular person or

Martin Lindeskog:

Average Joe or Mr. Smith or whatever don't know how to do this, but they want to feel

Martin Lindeskog:

secure and safe and no strange.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah. And it's interesting.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like the first version of Pod Friend, I used

Martin Mouritzen:

something called lnpay for the streaming.

Martin Mouritzen:

And what was really good about that was that I

Martin Mouritzen:

could abstract the whole idea of wallets and stuff away.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like you just had a Pot Friend wallet, a bit like Fountain, you have your own wallet there,

Martin Mouritzen:

so you didn't need to connect anything.

Martin Mouritzen:

And with LB, then you have to go off into this

Martin Mouritzen:

third party space and create a wallet and fill it up and then you come back and connect it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think I'm going to explore going back to the roots where newbies they just have a

Martin Mouritzen:

wallet.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then if you're a power user, well, then

Martin Mouritzen:

you can connect your LB wallet.

Martin Mouritzen:

Okay, let's do that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because again, you shouldn't put everything eggs in the basket and whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

And if it's really a big amount, you probably should have it on your secure keys or cold

Martin Lindeskog:

keys or whatever they call it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I'm not there yet.

Martin Lindeskog:

But with ALB it's nice that you could use several apps and it's connected to the same

Martin Lindeskog:

because that's the thing, if you have one wallet here and one there and another, it's

Martin Lindeskog:

starting adding up also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's interesting how this should

Martin Lindeskog:

synchronize and play around.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's nice to see what you're working at

Martin Lindeskog:

that and especially the synchronization.

Martin Lindeskog:

So could I then put you on the spot a little

Martin Lindeskog:

bit then? When I did a search on Pod News Weekly review.

Martin Lindeskog:

I search on the podcast.

Martin Lindeskog:

I want to be open to get the guest and don't

Martin Lindeskog:

do in a way I doing research and so on and we have each other a little bit, but I wanted to

Martin Lindeskog:

listen because you have been on Pod News, right?

Martin Lindeskog:

With long episode it was Mark esquitz and it was somebody else and you right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it was SAS Camaria from Fountain.

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that was one of the latest episodes and I tried to find it on Pod

Martin Lindeskog:

Friend.

Martin Lindeskog:

I didn't find May 12.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so, interestingly enough, it was actually because Sam Sethi I

Martin Mouritzen:

think made an error because he added it to the season one instead of season two.

Martin Lindeskog:

Okay, that explains that's easy to do.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have done, yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's not a fault of Pot Friend at the

Martin Mouritzen:

moment here you out.

Martin Lindeskog:

There, Sam SETI and yeah, it's funny.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think he did fix it now, actually, I don't know if maybe I'm cashing a

Martin Mouritzen:

little bit too hard there.

Martin Mouritzen:

So for you it still shows up on season one.

Martin Mouritzen:

I'll take a look at least.

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that was rearranged in a way it's good because then you could start as

Martin Lindeskog:

my co host of our podcast on Tea.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's a playwood word, so I say it in Swedish

Martin Lindeskog:

productivity, how to be productive and drink tea.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's a made up word in Swedish.

Martin Lindeskog:

But Michael is that you should start from the

Martin Lindeskog:

beginning and then you learn the development of the podcast and the discussion and how you

Martin Lindeskog:

develop the podcast.

Martin Lindeskog:

And you could also because when you start

Martin Lindeskog:

podcasting, when you look back, you always say oh, the sound or how did I talk, whatnot?

Martin Lindeskog:

But you have to start somewhere, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

At your default is the oldest first.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right.

Martin Mouritzen:

That actually changes.

Martin Mouritzen:

Okay, so if the podcast has several seasons,

Martin Mouritzen:

then it will start with the oldest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if it's a podcast that has no seasons but

Martin Mouritzen:

just a long list of episodes, it will show newest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because I'm making the assumption that if there's seasons, you want to start with the

Martin Mouritzen:

oldest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, and if there's no seasons, then it's

Martin Mouritzen:

probably like a news style, like pot news or something and then you want to probably listen

Martin Mouritzen:

to the newest first.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's the logic I have built in.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if you change it once, then it will remember forever.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's a good thing because again, I don't listen to so many even if I

Martin Lindeskog:

have codes.

Martin Lindeskog:

But we have season but that have been seasoned

Martin Lindeskog:

for different ways.

Martin Lindeskog:

Maybe you have a theme.

Martin Lindeskog:

So one called Victor in Swedish, important for real with current coach, that's a master

Martin Lindeskog:

certified coach ICF.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now we are season seven.

Martin Lindeskog:

So every season has a theme beginning, it was the senses, it was the elements and now it's

Martin Lindeskog:

about very much about her coaching and also podcasting and how it's interwean and how it

Martin Lindeskog:

could work together and the networking.

Martin Lindeskog:

So the guests have been often in different

Martin Lindeskog:

business networks and how they have meet each other and how you could for example, use

Martin Lindeskog:

LinkedIn or whatnot, but also how podcasting could help you in different ways.

Martin Lindeskog:

So it's very interesting way and that have developed over time.

Martin Lindeskog:

So after every season you could take a little break and a breeder and plan ahead.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because again, and I have challenged that also myself having a podcast and not.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, but it's like you mentioned that there are 4 million podcasts

Martin Mouritzen:

out there and some of them are active.

Martin Mouritzen:

But as I said, I listen to a lot of true

Martin Mouritzen:

crime, I listen to a lot of investigative yeah, investigative podcasts and stuff and and

Martin Mouritzen:

also, you know, some podcasts that are about, you know, as you say, coaching or something.

Martin Mouritzen:

So they are evergreen like, like, you know, it doesn't matter if they're active, you know, if

Martin Mouritzen:

I find them and I start them, you know, from the first episode it still gives me value and

Martin Mouritzen:

as we talked about the value for value, why shouldn't I stream value to them?

Martin Lindeskog:

That's good, I see the opportunity there.

Martin Lindeskog:

So do you want to talk about because in a way there is no such problem as this discovered

Martin Lindeskog:

problem.

Martin Lindeskog:

I know Rob Walsh at Libson saying that it's

Martin Lindeskog:

word of mouth but for small players it's hard to reach out.

Martin Lindeskog:

Often in mainstream media we only talk about, I don't know how it is in Denmark but in

Martin Lindeskog:

Sweden it's often these celebrities they are talking about or the big names.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's hard with the independent podcasters but you could do it in guerrilla marketing in

Martin Lindeskog:

different ways you could reach out but you have one that recent plays and also popular or

Martin Lindeskog:

something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Could you explain is it so called an algorithm

Martin Lindeskog:

or what's playing there when you log in?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean the trending I actually get from the podcast index it's

Martin Mouritzen:

basically based on how many people downloaded across the new podcasting 2.0 apps that's some

Martin Mouritzen:

generic popularity and then I have the latest listened in Pod Friend and that's only from

Martin Mouritzen:

people that are logged in.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then you can kind of see it's.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because the next step for me is to create lists and friends a bit like Facebook, so I

Martin Mouritzen:

can follow you and then I can have like let's say I make a list that's called True Crime or

Martin Mouritzen:

something.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then I can have latest listens by your friends

Martin Mouritzen:

in True Crime.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it becomes much more social, I think, in

Martin Mouritzen:

some areas.

Martin Mouritzen:

Fountain also does it really well.

Martin Mouritzen:

You can see who boosts what.

Martin Mouritzen:

I definitely want to introduce some of the

Martin Mouritzen:

same things in Pot friend yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

Because I really believe there is the power in

Martin Mouritzen:

community but I do also believe sometimes it makes sense narrowing down like, hey, I want

Martin Mouritzen:

to see what my friends like but within this category.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I'm definitely going to be doing a lot more work around how to discover podcasts and using

Martin Mouritzen:

the other people listening on Podfriend to create smarter things.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I'm never going to make algorithms.

Martin Lindeskog:

That will keep privacy thing.

Martin Mouritzen:

No. So I will definitely make either opt in or opt out.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that if you don't want people to know what you listen to you shouldn't be forced to

Martin Mouritzen:

contribute to that.

Martin Mouritzen:

But if you're like hey, I don't care if people

Martin Mouritzen:

know because then it also becomes one of those things where I can see that you listen to

Martin Mouritzen:

Podcasting 2.0 and if I don't know the show then I'll be like let.

Martin Lindeskog:

Me see, that's a good thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Will you get like similar to the Fountain and

Martin Lindeskog:

also podverse you get like a profile, a public profile also Fountain is even with the clips

Martin Lindeskog:

and things like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

podverse is more also the clips and what you

Martin Lindeskog:

are subscribing to.

Martin Lindeskog:

I'm not sure about that but will that be also

Martin Lindeskog:

that I will have Podfriend.com username or profile name or something like that or an ID

Martin Lindeskog:

number or something like that?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, 100% so I actually already coded that well some of it like an

Martin Mouritzen:

early version so it will come like I have a lot of things that are like 50% done and it

Martin Mouritzen:

just needs the last bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's one of those things.

Martin Mouritzen:

That because it is a hobby project I can work on.

Martin Mouritzen:

If I just get an idea, I can be like, hey, what would this look like?

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course, to actually release it, it would need more time, like more polish.

Martin Lindeskog:

And there we have something that I interviewed on my first podcast or

Martin Lindeskog:

Egonet Cost that I started in 2006.

Martin Lindeskog:

I interviewed a guy where he was one of the

Martin Lindeskog:

first employees at Libson and he has created an app for iOS and that is called Backpack

Martin Lindeskog:

Studio.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now the name again, but Philovat is his

Martin Lindeskog:

name.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then he had this live thing, but it's more

Martin Lindeskog:

like a radio thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

What was it?

Martin Lindeskog:

White? I don't remember.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you had to hook up something.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was a bit technical for me, but you could

Martin Lindeskog:

do that.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's interesting to see where we come

Martin Lindeskog:

into this.

Martin Lindeskog:

And he had this roadmap, he had some ideas and

Martin Lindeskog:

thoughts, what people wanted to have, but then he asked of course it could be that people who

Martin Lindeskog:

are eager, they could push their own agenda, what they want, and then you have to decide

Martin Lindeskog:

yourself also.

Martin Lindeskog:

But how did you come up with this live item

Martin Lindeskog:

tag then? Lit?

Martin Mouritzen:

So the lit, it's actually very straightforward.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's because every time I listen to Podcasting 2.0 Live, I had to use a different podcasting

Martin Mouritzen:

app than my own and that just felt like it hurt my professional pride.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's like I have to implement this.

Martin Mouritzen:

So yeah, I did.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then for a while I could just listen on the Podfront beta, which was I was the only

Martin Mouritzen:

user and then now it's released and everyone can.

Martin Lindeskog:

Use and you did a good guerrilla market there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also, you boost.

Martin Lindeskog:

You did a huge boost there a boostogram when

Martin Lindeskog:

you went live.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so I actually felt like I took like a year break.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I was extremely active in the first part of Podcasting 2.0 to the point where I probably

Martin Mouritzen:

burned out a little bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

My wife and I, we bought a house.

Martin Mouritzen:

There was a lot of work to do there and I got a promotion at my job, which seems like a good

Martin Mouritzen:

thing, but it eats a lot of your free time in the start and I just had to prioritize.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it wasn't even like conscious, it was just I didn't have the time.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then coming back every week I still listen to the Podcasting 2.0 shows, but then when I

Martin Mouritzen:

came back I was like, hey, I got a lot of value for those shows and I didn't actually

Martin Mouritzen:

boost very much.

Martin Mouritzen:

I did boost a little bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I felt like, hey, now let me make a few big boosts to make up for it.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I did that also in order to get really to

Martin Lindeskog:

show support, but also to get this Vatam new so called to joke but serious at the same

Martin Lindeskog:

time.

Martin Lindeskog:

Podcasting 2.0 certified because I have a t

Martin Lindeskog:

shirt now.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, I actually have that as well.

Martin Mouritzen:

I should have worn that for this interview.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I love it.

Martin Lindeskog:

I like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I put that as the tagline on LinkedIn

Martin Lindeskog:

that I'm in support of a podcast in 2.0 initiative because I'm an international

Martin Lindeskog:

project coordinator.

Martin Lindeskog:

I had that as an education.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also, in a way, a project is something that you start and then you finish and then you

Martin Lindeskog:

have a goals and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

But initiative is that it's never in a way

Martin Lindeskog:

ending and it's already in the beginning, but it has a great history and tradition or

Martin Lindeskog:

whatever experience to build on.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now it's interesting to see is it open, is

Martin Lindeskog:

it closed? What's RSS and whatnot?

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, the listeners don't really care.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if we explain how important it is for the

Martin Lindeskog:

future and the opportunity so that's why I want to listen now, when I know where it is on

Martin Lindeskog:

season one or two.

Martin Lindeskog:

On. Sam said when you talked because I had a

Martin Lindeskog:

short introduction, a solar show about Pod fans.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I also had a demonstration with Sam, and he was very nice and going through the whole

Martin Lindeskog:

thing, and I was asking all my dumb questions.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, sam is great.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now I updated it.

Martin Lindeskog:

So there I really when I saw that, I thought,

Martin Lindeskog:

wow, this onboarding, both regular listeners could earn satoshis, then could so called cash

Martin Lindeskog:

out whatnot but especially if they could support and get into it and you could then

Martin Lindeskog:

discover new podcast and is this gamification in a positive way?

Martin Lindeskog:

So you have really fought about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

But of course, again, I said that another

Martin Lindeskog:

place I fought that about Pod Chaser.

Martin Lindeskog:

I really liked that idea and I interviewed one

Martin Lindeskog:

of the co founders there.

Martin Lindeskog:

But now when I think about myself, how often

Martin Lindeskog:

do I log in on Pod Chaser? But I still like it very much because

Martin Lindeskog:

everything that I have listed as a co host or producer or whatever I'm listed.

Martin Lindeskog:

So then I could show I have a profile here, I have both a content creator profile and I have

Martin Lindeskog:

a user profile.

Martin Lindeskog:

And now they are bought by this big Swedish

Martin Lindeskog:

ACOs that have a player back in the day.

Martin Lindeskog:

Now they don't have it anymore.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh, they don't?

Martin Lindeskog:

No, I haven't that's a story for itself.

Martin Lindeskog:

But we could talk about that, maybe offline my ideas about why they did that because it's

Martin Lindeskog:

again more power to you, Martin, because it's not easy to do an app.

Martin Mouritzen:

That is certainly true, but we will.

Martin Lindeskog:

See how it will turn out with podcast because I think it's a really

Martin Lindeskog:

neat idea, but again, it is will you do it on a daily basis and what could you use it for?

Martin Lindeskog:

And with Pod fans that you could earn something from it by being active.

Martin Lindeskog:

I really see that.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, friendly competition.

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean, Pod Chasers say now owned by ACOs that they are for so called this open thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now we'll see and they are even I think in this standard podcast project, whatever it's

Martin Lindeskog:

called.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we'll see.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I like again what outspoken Adam and Dave, they say what they think.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I love that.

Martin Mouritzen:

A lot of the bigger hosting companies, they're

Martin Mouritzen:

great.

Martin Mouritzen:

But it's the same with Apple podcast and

Martin Mouritzen:

Spotify.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think there are probably engineers there or

Martin Mouritzen:

product managers or designers that would like to make some of these things that we are

Martin Mouritzen:

doing.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I know that as soon as a company reaches a

Martin Mouritzen:

certain size, it becomes almost impossible to make something new and fun quickly.

Martin Mouritzen:

It becomes almost like designed by a committee in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

I wonder why Google Podcast didn't do anything more.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because they have that philosophy so called like Gmail was come up with an employee that

Martin Lindeskog:

worked on his own project and why shouldn't they?

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's something that is I don't know, they have some issues there, but potentially they

Martin Lindeskog:

should have been able to do it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But what I like is lately this wordpress.org

Martin Lindeskog:

and this Matt Woolenweg, this foundation has bought Pocketcast, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

I didn't know that actually.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, and this is pretty popular app both by Apple users but also

Martin Lindeskog:

Android users.

Martin Lindeskog:

And they had their premium feature and they

Martin Lindeskog:

say that they are into this and want to go there.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that could be really because they have maybe a few percentage.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, as I said, one of our podcasts, the secular Foxhole, this Op free thing that we

Martin Lindeskog:

added, John spurl thing at the recent period fountain was on the top list together with

Martin Lindeskog:

podverse.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I want to see Pod friend value too, and

Martin Lindeskog:

everyone I do too.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it doesn't have to take much.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you decide yourself and you could see that the different podcast apps could be used

Martin Lindeskog:

for different things.

Martin Lindeskog:

So, if you have time, we will do some quick

Martin Lindeskog:

and hard questions here about the journalistic thing, the w's, who, what, when, where and

Martin Lindeskog:

why.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we have talked about you as a person, but

Martin Lindeskog:

who are you as a developer? Would you say what kind of type or again, why

Martin Lindeskog:

do you do this kind of thing?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, so I started programming when I was like, what?

Martin Mouritzen:

Twelve or something on my dad's computer and started early making like I think my first

Martin Mouritzen:

project was a web chat, actually with a frame that refreshed every now and again.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I honestly did use Commodore and Amiga.

Martin Mouritzen:

No. So that was actually when the internet

Martin Mouritzen:

launched.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think my first programming was on Dos.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was like bad files in Basic.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then as soon as the internet came, I

Martin Mouritzen:

started to learn a bit of Pearl and that's what I made the first web chat in.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I think I probably made one of Denmark's first social media platforms.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was called Trendy DK and it was even like, promoted in the TV.

Martin Lindeskog:

Did you do a good exit? And laughed all the way to the bank.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I wish I made the worst kind of exit possible.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that was I had a really popular website and I was, what, 15 years old or something,

Martin Mouritzen:

and I had this idea for an amazing version 2.0.

Martin Mouritzen:

And what I did was that I made a new front page on Trend DK that said, stay tuned,

Martin Mouritzen:

version two is coming soon.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I actually turned off the old website

Martin Mouritzen:

because I wanted it to make like, okay, a really big splash.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then version two took forever to build.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then once I was ready, of course, the

Martin Mouritzen:

users had forgotten all about it.

Martin Mouritzen:

There were quite a few loyal people and some

Martin Mouritzen:

that even said, like, hey, we found each other and started dating because of you.

Martin Mouritzen:

That was cool.

Martin Mouritzen:

But it never gotten around to be as popular in

Martin Mouritzen:

the start.

Martin Mouritzen:

No. Then I transitioned into building some

Martin Mouritzen:

software for actual businesses and enterprise, and I was lucky to get some of the biggest

Martin Mouritzen:

companies in Denmark as a client.

Martin Mouritzen:

It was mostly for businesses.

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, exclusively.

Martin Mouritzen:

But it was a content management system, so it

Martin Mouritzen:

also had a lot of consumer facing parts to it.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I learned a lot about usability and design

Martin Mouritzen:

and stuff.

Martin Mouritzen:

It went from just me until I think we were

Martin Mouritzen:

1415 people.

Martin Mouritzen:

I like to say it went really well until it

Martin Mouritzen:

didn't because the market just got absolutely saturated.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I would say during those years, it was over 15 years, I learned a lot about how you

Martin Mouritzen:

can spend a lot of time developing something that then no one ends up using, or how some

Martin Mouritzen:

things you develop that might only take a few hours, everyone uses.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that's what I use now in my career as a product manager.

Martin Mouritzen:

So in my day to day work, I don't program anymore, but then I program every single

Martin Mouritzen:

evening at home with Pot Friend.

Martin Mouritzen:

So what kind of developer am I?

Martin Mouritzen:

I'm the running fast with scissors, but still wanting to make something really solid and

Martin Mouritzen:

user friendly.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's actually a little bit against how I

Martin Mouritzen:

normally do it to release something that I feel is unfinished, which I did here with the

Martin Mouritzen:

Podfin 2.0.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I just felt like I need something out

Martin Mouritzen:

there instead of saying next.

Martin Lindeskog:

Week, next week, in a way, whatever we think about, like Facebook

Martin Lindeskog:

nowadays, that's how they do it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also, this spaghetti method, they throw it on

Martin Lindeskog:

the wall and see if it still this poke thing is there, but.

Martin Mouritzen:

Who, it's just hidden.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's great.

Martin Lindeskog:

So what you're doing, we have talked about

Martin Lindeskog:

that programming and what Pod Friend is, if you would tell a new podcast listener, what is

Martin Lindeskog:

Pod Friend?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean, Pod Friend is a podcasting app where you can go in and you

Martin Mouritzen:

can start listening to audio dramas and documentaries and.

Martin Mouritzen:

Coaching podcasts you can find everything audio related there just with a quick search

Martin Mouritzen:

and then you can start listening and then what I usually say is great about Podfriend, or

Martin Mouritzen:

will be now once I have the desktop and the mobile app is exactly that.

Martin Mouritzen:

If you want to listen on a mobile phone like while you commute or walk the dog or mowing

Martin Mouritzen:

the lawn, then you use the mobile app and then if you want to listen to podcasts while at

Martin Mouritzen:

work, then you can download the desktop app and then you can continue exactly where you

Martin Mouritzen:

left off.

Martin Mouritzen:

And that's also the version one had some of it

Martin Mouritzen:

but not great synchronization and I could just see that I found like a niche there.

Martin Mouritzen:

The most users of Podfriend were actually using the desktop version which was quite

Martin Mouritzen:

surprising because almost none of the popular apps have well, okay, I say that but of course

Martin Mouritzen:

Apple Podcast have it and Spotify, but a lot of the indie apps, they don't have a desktop

Martin Mouritzen:

version.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I felt like I hit some kind of niche there

Martin Mouritzen:

and I hope to use that a bit more.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I like the app also, but I also like to listen and log in on a web

Martin Lindeskog:

browser in order to do other things at the same time.

Martin Lindeskog:

And also that have been pretty popular because some of the apps, like Apple Podcast, they

Martin Lindeskog:

take some time to start and also Spotify, even if you have a new computer, it's like starting

Martin Lindeskog:

to scrolling in the background.

Martin Lindeskog:

It takes so long time and it's very clean and

Martin Lindeskog:

neat.

Martin Lindeskog:

But where you also have this do you want to

Martin Lindeskog:

say and we probably do a follow up with that, this chat thing but also how we could you said

Martin Lindeskog:

about mastodon in the long run to continue a Fred with a chat that you could be searched

Martin Lindeskog:

and you could be found.

Martin Lindeskog:

For me, it's a bit mind blowing.

Martin Lindeskog:

If it will work.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's the old good old days about blog comments

Martin Lindeskog:

in a positive way and if that will work and I know it's lots of technical thing but not if

Martin Lindeskog:

but when it works it will be amazing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because then what?

Martin Lindeskog:

You are putting in like a curator or like a lurker or a commenter.

Martin Lindeskog:

That could be something worth also for the conversation, as I like the expression adding

Martin Lindeskog:

your two cent to the conversation.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I think it's just another way.

Martin Lindeskog:

You have done a neat way with the bubbles and so it almost like it

Martin Lindeskog:

looks like this, right? iPhone chat with the bubbles.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

And of course that's on purpose that I want it

Martin Mouritzen:

to look like a chat.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's the transcript you're talking about.

Martin Lindeskog:

There once we yeah, that's even better in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

So how do you set that up, the transcript?

Martin Lindeskog:

Is it when you log in on the web also or is it that you have to download the app.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, you can actually use the web but right now we're reading it from the

Martin Mouritzen:

RSS feed.

Martin Mouritzen:

So it's only from the podcast that has the

Martin Mouritzen:

transcript.

Martin Mouritzen:

And in the future I actually talked to Sam

Martin Mouritzen:

about this in the Pod News Weekly that I would love the idea of people being able to, let's

Martin Mouritzen:

say, boost Pod friend and then we would automatically generate the transcript.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then I heard the next day that Fountain already did that or in the new version.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's really interesting and I didn't know that Fountain had that planned.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I think we're getting a lot of the same ideas and it also just shows that it's such a

Martin Mouritzen:

field where innovation is just happening so fast.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because I see the transcript even if it's not 100% right and it could have

Martin Lindeskog:

a hard time to if I say Linda Scoogum your name, last name, for example.

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then of course, is it worth to go in and change this if you can?

Martin Lindeskog:

Or as I'm using all the two when I'm doing editing and post production, they have a

Martin Lindeskog:

really neat transcript service but you can't do so much you upload these what is calling

Martin Lindeskog:

SRT file because that's what I think it's working.

Martin Lindeskog:

But you could have text also, and others but it is lots of work into this and it will

Martin Lindeskog:

evolve over time and then you will see if the market will in one way or another pay for it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because it could be accessibility, you could be searchable, but also you have to do it like

Martin Lindeskog:

similar with this chapter thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

We do it for one podcast called Presentation

Martin Lindeskog:

Skills Q and A because we have a short podcast format where like five to maximum ten minutes

Martin Lindeskog:

and choose maybe four, five, six images and that's doable.

Martin Lindeskog:

But I am so impressed.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course they have help with no agenda and

Martin Lindeskog:

others but to do all these transcript and chapters but lots of work to do.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, and you can see that's really the power of building a community

Martin Mouritzen:

around your podcast.

Martin Mouritzen:

I know that it's DREB.

Martin Mouritzen:

Scott that typically does it for both.

Martin Lindeskog:

Noah and Jen and he gets a bit of a splitters but he's very good at

Martin Lindeskog:

sending Boostograms also and competing.

Martin Lindeskog:

He put me off on this big top list on

Martin Lindeskog:

Fountain.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think one time I was almost winning

Martin Lindeskog:

something.

Martin Lindeskog:

They had these giveaways.

Martin Mouritzen:

That'S funny.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I have a theory that he's sending more

Martin Mouritzen:

than he's receiving.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, I'm here too, but it's all good because it will come back to you and

Martin Lindeskog:

it's very nice in a friendly way, marketing that you do it and you get the connection.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I really like that you have done that.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I definitely have to check out the

Martin Lindeskog:

transcript because if it's in a neat way both accessibility, but also in a neat way, if you

Martin Lindeskog:

want to search for something like when I'm now doing clips, because that's what I like with

Martin Lindeskog:

podverse and a fountain, then you could search for the transcript.

Martin Lindeskog:

When did I say when did I send this boost Togram?

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you could do this ego boosting by yourself but also you're adding something to

Martin Lindeskog:

the conversation.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then you could turn out on Twitter.

Martin Lindeskog:

Whatnot? And I think that's pretty so I did that

Martin Lindeskog:

recently on the latest episode of this victim important for real.

Martin Lindeskog:

Then my cos corin she said this should be a clip of it because it's like a teaser or

Martin Lindeskog:

trailer of episode.

Martin Lindeskog:

I think you should listen to the whole thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course.

Martin Lindeskog:

But if you do it in a nice way it could be

Martin Lindeskog:

like I think of you maybe you should listen to this episode.

Martin Lindeskog:

Here is a short 1 minute clip, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And this technology to do that again, somebody has to do it, right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I definitely also want to add for example

Martin Mouritzen:

clips to Podfriend.

Martin Mouritzen:

We also have in the podcasting 2.0 there is a

Martin Mouritzen:

tag for like a clip that's a trailer or something.

Martin Mouritzen:

That's definitely also something.

Martin Mouritzen:

It's like there are so many ideas and stuff.

Martin Mouritzen:

You're talking about a roadmap earlier.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like I have a thing called a trello board

Martin Mouritzen:

where you have a little almost virtual cart for each task and I think there is over 1000

Martin Mouritzen:

items on that board with just ideas.

Martin Mouritzen:

So I definitely will not run out anytime soon.

Martin Mouritzen:

No, that's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

So when we come to the when also, I mean when you are doing this and you

Martin Lindeskog:

had said that it's like a side thing and then you hustle but also a passion project and you

Martin Lindeskog:

get like a kick off it.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's great.

Martin Lindeskog:

And where we know it's like in Denmark and Copenhagen, do you get lots of feedback around

Martin Lindeskog:

the world? Like input and you got context and connections

Martin Lindeskog:

by doing this?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I do.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I typically get a lot of feedback when

Martin Mouritzen:

I do a new release and people try it out and then like day to day I will get a lot well,

Martin Mouritzen:

no, actually that's wrong.

Martin Mouritzen:

When I do a new release I'll get a lot of

Martin Mouritzen:

feedback from people that just try it and then it balances out.

Martin Mouritzen:

So in the normal time then I'll get a lot more feedback about the everyday experience from

Martin Mouritzen:

those people that use it more as like an everyday thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

Because I'm doing it for my own reasons also because I seen it.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then I understood your situation in a way and then I heard the good news and we will end

Martin Lindeskog:

on that note.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also how we got to know each other a bit more

Martin Lindeskog:

so that I thought was neat that you oh, now I want to test again when you are doing this new

Martin Lindeskog:

version.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then you could work not in the disguise or

Martin Lindeskog:

hide, but you could work behind the scenes.

Martin Lindeskog:

I know like a ringer.

Martin Lindeskog:

That was one of the first apps that you could have several guests on a podcast, on audio,

Martin Lindeskog:

and that's lots of technology in order to work, right?

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, but on their app they haven't updated for a long time, but they do with small things

Martin Lindeskog:

in order to make it more stable the whole time.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, it could be enough to have like one bad review and then others are coming,

Martin Lindeskog:

catching up, so to speak.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then you could also be happy with we have

Martin Lindeskog:

found our market, now we have found our audience and our client base.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's good also because it's yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

What I could see was that before I took the break from podcasting, I

Martin Mouritzen:

could listen to a lot of podcasts and then they would say like, oh, this boost is from

Martin Mouritzen:

this person through pot friend.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then when I hold that year break during

Martin Mouritzen:

that year it would still come and then at the end of the year it would start to drop off

Martin Mouritzen:

like then it was all potverse and fountain.

Martin Mouritzen:

I was like, if I had just been able to develop

Martin Mouritzen:

that whole year, it would have been such an amazing app.

Martin Mouritzen:

But sometimes you don't have that luxury.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I definitely hope to it's what you said,

Martin Mouritzen:

like the friendly competition.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think all the smaller apps, we steal ideas

Martin Mouritzen:

from each other.

Martin Mouritzen:

We see what's working or borrow ideas or

Martin Mouritzen:

getting.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Mouritzen:

What is the quote that great artists copy, no good artists copy but amazing artists steal or

Martin Mouritzen:

something like that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, as long as you give credit, that credit is due.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I think that's important.

Martin Lindeskog:

And that's the why thing here also when you

Martin Lindeskog:

have this journalistic thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So again, I think probably guess the answer,

Martin Lindeskog:

but why are you doing this?

Martin Mouritzen:

Well, so first of all, there's the American Express and dog fooding.

Martin Mouritzen:

Like using your own product.

Martin Lindeskog:

I say that also eating your own dog food.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, and I definitely to do that.

Martin Mouritzen:

I use podfriend myself.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then when I'm suddenly like, oh, I wish it

Martin Mouritzen:

could do that, it's like, well I can make it do that because I'm the developer and that's

Martin Mouritzen:

awesome to have that freedom.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I guess there is still this small pipe

Martin Mouritzen:

dream that at some point it could make it big, at some point I could make it good enough that

Martin Mouritzen:

I could get that one percentage of listeners or something.

Martin Lindeskog:

That's good that you are now saying it on these small podcasts.

Martin Lindeskog:

You never know, you could exactly come back five years later and say that because it's not

Martin Lindeskog:

an impossible thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

It is point, whatever.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then it's good.

Martin Lindeskog:

As I said.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, we can see that.

Martin Mouritzen:

Of course Apple podcasts have a big.

Martin Lindeskog:

But it's like a default on default because it's already on your phone.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right?

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Mouritzen:

But you can't for example, say that about

Martin Mouritzen:

Spotify.

Martin Mouritzen:

They started from nothing, but they had.

Martin Lindeskog:

A huge advantage with the music app.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, but I mean back in the days with music they started from nothing,

Martin Mouritzen:

right? True, of course, yes.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then transition into podcasting and they had that step but.

Martin Lindeskog:

Also they got support from the record industry.

Martin Lindeskog:

I mean they saved the record industry from a pirate base and others.

Martin Mouritzen:

That is true.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that's the backstory and it's fascinating.

Martin Mouritzen:

Story but there were probably ten other companies that were trying

Martin Mouritzen:

to do something like it and someone has to win.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think with the podcasting apps there's so much potential but you also have to be

Martin Mouritzen:

really good if you want users that just listen to some audio drama to actually change from

Martin Mouritzen:

let's say Apple podcast to something else.

Martin Mouritzen:

You have to provide something unique.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think right now we do have the 2.0 features and that's enough for some like that

Martin Mouritzen:

they can support users, that they can read chapters and transcripts but I think for the

Martin Mouritzen:

majority of users then we have to do something really unique and probably in the discovery

Martin Mouritzen:

realm like how people find podcasts.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's at least my gut feeling and that's

Martin Mouritzen:

why I'm moving Pod friend a bit.

Martin Mouritzen:

And also I think Fountain actually has it

Martin Mouritzen:

right about also going the social route.

Martin Mouritzen:

That's definitely also something that I'll be

Martin Mouritzen:

looking into because I think discoverability and social.

Martin Mouritzen:

Then your friends will say hey, have you tried this podcasting app?

Martin Mouritzen:

Then you can see what I listen to and stuff.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, because that's actually one thing that I

Martin Mouritzen:

do get a lot of questions from my friends like oh, I want to listen to a new podcast, can't

Martin Mouritzen:

you recommend something good? It's like it would be great if I just through

Martin Mouritzen:

Podfriend just could say and send it to them as recommendations.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's definitely something that I want in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

And in a way they maybe don't need it because that's not their business.

Martin Lindeskog:

But they tried a social called Pling or Plig or whatever and that didn't turn.

Martin Mouritzen:

Oh yeah, I remember that.

Martin Mouritzen:

That was mostly for music, right?

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, but still if you use the app you could see your friends what they

Martin Lindeskog:

are listening to but it's not before you could follow artists directly and so on but they

Martin Lindeskog:

have thought that also but with Spotify it is about the whole thing about creating list and

Martin Lindeskog:

sharing list and party, whatever.

Martin Lindeskog:

So they have been good at that.

Martin Lindeskog:

Again is this battle of ideas you could say do they have an agenda, what do they really do?

Martin Lindeskog:

Let's talk about that and let's have conversation, even debate discourse and also

Martin Lindeskog:

get out there talking about that because I think that's interesting what's playing out

Martin Lindeskog:

here.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's interesting and talking about that

Martin Lindeskog:

why also but also where you are, do you know podcastconsult?

Martin Lindeskog:

DK Corinhurg, an old one of earliest podcasters out there.

Martin Lindeskog:

I don't know her actually or she still probably have a studio in Copenhagen and I met

Martin Lindeskog:

her when I visited there and she's very nice person and great podcaster and she has like a

Martin Lindeskog:

podcast shop selling equipment and so on.

Martin Mouritzen:

I did go and meet the people.

Martin Lindeskog:

Behind the Hindenburg and it's fascinating the name Hindenburg crashed,

Martin Lindeskog:

but that's a very good program.

Martin Lindeskog:

But for me it was in a way overkill.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I had this $1 version.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then of course you have to upgrade if you

Martin Lindeskog:

do all the bells and whistles.

Martin Lindeskog:

And then I was so happy about when Ollie Two

Martin Lindeskog:

was coming around with Colin Gray, that is a professional podcaster and have podcast

Martin Lindeskog:

service and all this around and also content creator for a long time.

Martin Lindeskog:

He written long blog post and article and guides and so on.

Martin Lindeskog:

And when he saw this that not everyone is studio technician or sound engineer or know

Martin Lindeskog:

how to use GarageBand or Audacity.

Martin Lindeskog:

That is not so called in my view.

Martin Lindeskog:

Use a friend.

Martin Lindeskog:

Of course he's only learning how to learn

Martin Lindeskog:

about it, but hinburg.

Martin Mouritzen:

It actually reminds me but before this show, this is the first time I

Martin Mouritzen:

used this microphone for a podcast.

Martin Mouritzen:

And before the show, to set some of the

Martin Mouritzen:

settings, I called up one of my coworkers and I was like okay, how does it sound now?

Martin Mouritzen:

Okay, let me just like and what about now? And then we found a good setting, knock on

Martin Mouritzen:

wood.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I have this roder that I like and like the style.

Martin Lindeskog:

But again, I don't know if it's exactly the right settings and so on, but you have to test

Martin Lindeskog:

and you have and of course we shiny gadgets.

Martin Lindeskog:

It's probably one microphone out there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Martin, that's your name on it but you haven't found it yet.

Martin Lindeskog:

But then again it's just do it also, as Nike is saying, to start and that's what I like

Martin Lindeskog:

also.

Martin Mouritzen:

Exactly.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's great too.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we have this with Copenhagen is CPH the

Martin Lindeskog:

airport but in Gotenberg it's got so got milk.

Martin Lindeskog:

Have you heard about that expression?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that's something to think about.

Martin Lindeskog:

And talking about that.

Martin Lindeskog:

We have talked about drinks and beverages and

Martin Lindeskog:

whatnot.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was a funny and that of course was this

Martin Lindeskog:

really live thing.

Martin Lindeskog:

So I think that was kosher to do.

Martin Lindeskog:

But we were playing lots of music at one episode with Adam the DJ.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we were trying to get into the boosting and this too unlimited no

Martin Lindeskog:

Limit song.

Martin Lindeskog:

That was fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I have had several.

Martin Lindeskog:

Again what I want to tell artists that I have

Martin Lindeskog:

had as guests, like Rosala, for example, and others, I have had, like ten different artists

Martin Lindeskog:

now on my ego net cost.

Martin Lindeskog:

And it's interesting to hear about their story

Martin Lindeskog:

and career, but also how to make a living, the concert merchandise, and also how to get paid

Martin Lindeskog:

by when they are streaming and the challenges there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Probably it has to be, as Adam is saying, its own app, in a way.

Martin Lindeskog:

Again, as you say, it's hard to mix and match, but it could be built with the same

Martin Lindeskog:

technology.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I do plan to make have music in Podfriend as well, but I plan to have

Martin Mouritzen:

it where you switch it.

Martin Mouritzen:

Now I go into music mode or now I go into

Martin Mouritzen:

podcast mode.

Martin Mouritzen:

But I do believe you're right, if I wanted to

Martin Mouritzen:

make sure it was the most successful thing possible, I would make it its own app.

Martin Mouritzen:

So that's definitely the right way to go.

Martin Mouritzen:

And I think Steven is going the right way with

Martin Mouritzen:

making the Ellen Beats.

Martin Mouritzen:

I think he just needs a little bit of help

Martin Mouritzen:

from a designer that could really put a nice skin on it.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah. And you said it because I'm not the designer, but I could see

Martin Lindeskog:

what I see.

Martin Lindeskog:

Right.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, it's what you have in your mind.

Martin Lindeskog:

So that could be good, like a focus group and

Martin Lindeskog:

bounce things back and forth and get this positive constructive feedback.

Martin Lindeskog:

And I think that's interesting with the split what you could do.

Martin Lindeskog:

So again, it's to reach out and I like what Adam is often saying that and also Dave, also

Martin Lindeskog:

how could you help? So that could be now we have been chatting for

Martin Lindeskog:

a long time and I've been babbling.

Martin Lindeskog:

So is it how could I help you and how could

Martin Lindeskog:

listener help you with Pod Friend and others and anything else that you want to end on as

Martin Lindeskog:

an end note?

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, I mean anyone can definitely help just by using it and giving

Martin Mouritzen:

feedback.

Martin Mouritzen:

I have people that ask me, hey, is it okay if

Martin Mouritzen:

I send you an email with an idea I have? And I'm like, yes, I love ideas because that

Martin Mouritzen:

also shows what people are thinking about, how they're using the app, what they're thinking

Martin Mouritzen:

it should be able to do.

Martin Mouritzen:

I mean, I can't promise that I will implement

Martin Mouritzen:

each and every idea, but I will definitely take it into account.

Martin Mouritzen:

And then how else can you help? You can help spread the word, like let other

Martin Mouritzen:

people know that something like podcasting 2.0 apps actually exist.

Martin Mouritzen:

And it's not just Pod Friend, it's also all the other apps out there.

Martin Lindeskog:

Yeah, that's great.

Martin Lindeskog:

Thanks again Martin, to coming on the show and

Martin Lindeskog:

nice talking to you.

Martin Lindeskog:

And we'll see how the live was going.

Martin Lindeskog:

And again, it's with editing and post production and show notes and transcripts.

Martin Lindeskog:

So we'll see when we will be up on the air.

Martin Lindeskog:

But yeah, so if you have any input later on or

Martin Lindeskog:

something how we could work together here, you're more than welcome to also send me an

Martin Lindeskog:

email and we will continue our conversation.

Martin Lindeskog:

Thanks again for your time.

Martin Lindeskog:

It was great.

Martin Mouritzen:

Thanks a lot for having me.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yeah, it was great.

Martin Mouritzen:

I had a lot of fun.

Martin Lindeskog:

And to talk to your partner about Tea also as an end note there.

Martin Mouritzen:

Yes.

Martin Lindeskog:

So thanks again, Martin.

Martin Lindeskog:

So now you have to wait for a second and I

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Tea Party Media
The Journey of a New Media Advisor
Are You ready for a Tea Party gathering with a New Media Advisor? TeaParty.Media is an umbrella organization for Martin Lindeskog's networking and social media activities.

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Martin Lindeskog

Creator, ✍🏻 Tea Book Sketches. Indie Biz Philosopher ⚛️ & New Media 📲 Advisor, TeaParty.Media. Blogger since 2002 and podcaster🎙since 2006. First podcast: EGO NetCast. Latest podcast: High Five for Hemp. Support 💲My Work and 🗽 Freedom of Expression: https://bio.link/lyceum